Request for Information: ONC Stewardship over Cosmos "spoon"

cosmos
spoon
omg
#1

Now that Cosmos mainnet is officially LIVE, the OmiseGO Network Community (ONC) is in an excellent position to give serious consideration and divert resources to “spooning” OmiseGO ERC20 digital tokens and testing out public staking via Cosmos. What is a spoon? As suggested by Vitalik Buterin:

A hard spoon is a meta-protocol on top of a blockchain creating a token that inherits the blockchain’s underlying token’s balances. The idea of a soft spoon would be to create two competing branches of a protocol within the same blockchain.

Let’s get it. We need actionable info on how to make this work, if still worthwhile. Discuss!

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#2

Coming back here to link “An Update on the Plans for a Cosmos DEX,” which seems to be most recent word on this.

Notably:

Tendermint is a software development company specializing in distributed systems. Tendermint can potentially provide support to anyone who wants to launch a zone or hardspoon. However, Tendermint does not plan to launch or operate any of its own blockchains or DEXs at this time.

So, I figure ONC should reach out to Tendermint?

Edit: Update 4/27/19:

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#3

To do a hardspoon with DEX utility, three parts are required

  1. A tendermint based blockchain mechanism (staking, account ledger, token transfers, hardspooning token balances)
  2. A DEX mechanism
  3. A pegging mechanism. Cosmos refers to this as peg zones. A bridge or gateway that can be used to transfer Eth and ERC20 between Ethereum and the tendermint based chain. It’s these tokens that are going to be involved in transfers and exchange.

The above can be done in two ways. First way is to take OMG Honte and complete it. Second way is to build a custom blockchain using the Cosmos SDK with available modules corresponding to the above given 1, 2 & 3.

First way, Completing OMG Honte

  • A tendermint based blockchain seems to be done, but is to be made production ready.
  • The DEX is yet to be done
  • I’m not sure to what extent the pegging mechanism is done, but I don’t think much is done here.

Second way, custom blockchain using Cosmos SDK modules. The SDK provides modules for various purposes which can be put together to build a blockchain. Only few modules are currently production ready.

  • Tendermint based blockchain : Tendermint module, account module, staking module, etc. Most of the modules needed here are production ready
  • DEX mechanism : The DEX module I doubt is even ready but not sure.
  • Pegging mechanism : A module called Peggy exists and is used in the Cosmos hub. But need to verify if it’s a true bridge to Ethereum and if it’s production ready. If not can ask to find if another module exists for this purpose.
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#4

I really appreciate this clear breakdown of our options here @tousthilagavathy!

So, it seems easiest to build through Cosmos SDK modules, though nice that we have Honte material in background.

I consider this high-quality community input to the ONC RFI on this topic to support our effective decisionmaking (i.e., “should we bother?”), and endorse a reimbursement of 10 DAI for your short summary here from the ONC Coop. Vault - You can request this amount via a withdrawal request to your Ethereum address from the top-right corner of the linked page.

If you or any others have additional bandwidth on this subject, I would also appreciate notes on:

  • Status of Cosmos SDK DEX module
  • Verify if “Peggy” satisfies our requirements
2 Likes
#5

@ro5s as you said, I requested a withdrawal of 10 DAI to my ethereum address. But it says that I don’t have the permissions. It also says voting is needed. What do I do next?

1 Like
#6

Hey @tousthilagavathy - thanks for following up.

Re: Aragon Vault: That message is accurate. As a nonvoting member, you will not have permission to withdraw funds, so your request will instead create a vote for ONC members to complete the DAI disbursement (you are, of course, also welcome to join Coop. by adding info to member list here)

Let me know if things work on your second try!

#7

@ro5s I tried again. I’m getting the following message

The action failed to execute. You may not have the required permissions.

Another question is, do I need to login to oncommunity in Aragon?

#8

@tousthilagavathy are you running MetaMask? You essentially log in to the Aragon community via logging in to MetaMask.

#9

@tousthilagavathy I tested a withdrawal from another MetaMask address and was able to create an ONC Coop. vote: https://mainnet.aragon.org/#/oncommunity.aragonid.eth/0xae974ac35f728a51a8b685dda53c675116b2a76b
Let me know if you still have issues; otherwise, I can create a withdrawal vote to your EthAddress as you provide it.

#10

I tried again

@AA I’m logged into metamask. During the withdrawal, it asks me to to enable metamask. I click enable and follow up by clicking connect to connect Aragon to my metamask.

Inspite of it, I’m still getting the error message,
The action failed to execute. You may not have the required permissions.

@ro5s my Eth wallet address is
0xCFaca7e8998c98596D870CD361Ab81E233C7D6d8

#11

On the actual topic of a Cosmos spoon (meant to post this yesterday but only ever got around to making a random comment about MetaMask):

As @tousthilagavathy pointed out, there are a number of tools out there to help you spin up a blockchain and put a DEX on it. But launching a multi-operator DEX needs a whole other category of work as well - deploy it, maintain it, bootstrap stakers and the volume that makes staking worthwhile.

Talking about building this as a community means all of that will fall to the community as well; so for the thing to actually function in the real world, you’re also looking at wrangling a whole ecosystem of stakeholders and having the mechanisms in place for them to take collective, coordinated action. There are models out there to take cues from, but it’s not likely to be a copy/paste and it can’t happen in a vacuum.

Not trying to be discouraging, just some items for the to-do list :wink:

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#12

@AA Not discouraged at all, and I appreciate you adding to our list! This sounds like just the challenge to motivate meaningful action by OMG stakeholders. I will do some research, and @tousthilagavathy has agreed to produce more notes to aid in our discussion and decision-making process on whether ZOMG spoon is worthwhile use of time.

I have also created a vote to credit @tousthilagavathy with 10 DAI - which will execute if confirmed by @nebali in next day.

Note: Creating an endorsement for Bounty here on the Forum, and then the endorsee creating a vote on Aragon or another doing the same (I will manage for now…) feel like easy path forward.

#13

Thanks @ro5s. I sent the vote, still pending in Etherscan.

I do agree that bounty endorsements will be easier here in the forum. We should also consider keeping a ledger of bounties here in the forum, maybe using Discourse badges, as I expect the gas fees for voting frequently will eventually be a concern.

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#14

Thanks @nebali. I agree that it would be easier to use this forum to keep track of contributions (which might then be redeemed for digital assets from ONC vault?). Would love to iterate more on ‘badges’ and similar, as well!

#15

Recommend we start a new thread to talk about bounties/maybe a running thread to keep track of them as they’re proposed? Since Discourse doesn’t do nested comments afaik, it seems cleaner to discuss that in a separate place where it won’t break up the flow of another topic.

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#16

Much agreed. Kinda putting Spoon sideways, as it were. I was meaning to create a new topic with a video demo on how to make a bounty withdrawal request from Aragon anyways. Will ping link here in a sec.

Now, I hope we can pivot back to the topic of ZOMG spoon. Are there other chains ONC community should look at? Should we think of ERC20 lockdrop to Polka parachain as way to add governance value to OMG tokens?

Update: Pushing sidetracks over to Bounty DAO Troubleshooting Thread

#17

One advantage polkadot provides over Cosmos is shared validation. With Cosmos the OMG zone would need it’s own validators which we have to arrange for. With polkadot, the OMG parachain can share the validators from the relay chain, making management easier. The details would need to be looked into.

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#18

Further notes to study and discuss the feasibility of the spoon. @ro5s

Some problems to consider for the spoon

  • As @AA says bootstraping stakers, running and managing the spooned network will involve considerable complexity.
  • Liquidity will be one big obstacle for the spooned DEX which would be quite difficult to solve.
  • Gaining adoption will require marketing efforts. If not done successfully and if liquidity is not solved, the network will become a ghost town and all efforts will be rendered useless.
  • Even if everything is done successfully, it can end up competing with the OMG Network.

I had mentioned two ways in my previous comment. Here I propose a third way for the spoon, the basics of which are

. Ethereum and Cosmos OMG Zone will both connect to the same Plasma based OMG Network. (Concept of plasma chain connecting to multiple root chains)

. The spooned tokens are in the Cosmos OMG Zone. The spooned tokens can be used as reward tokens.

  • Incentiving Stakers : OMG Network uses a staking token and provides incentives for stakers in the form of transaction fees
  • Incentiving Users 1 : It aims to provide scope/convenience/non-financial incentives to users in the form of solving the coordination problem for payment processors, censorship resistance, security, scalability, UX, etc.
  • Incentiving Users 2 : It also provides low cost incentives to users in the form of low transaction fees
  • Incentiving Users 3 : What do you think about the OMG Network providing direct financial incentives to users for participating in the network? The hardspoon token can be used as the reward token. Like BAT reward users for their attention, we can reward users for participation (there are many activities that can be rewarded). A strong reward token mechanism can be worked out. A proper stablecoin/fiat token combined with this financial incentive could kickstart and grow the volume on the OMG Network. This could help with adoption, create loyal users and produce network effects.

. No seperate Cosmos OMG Zone to Ethereum pegging/bridging mechanism is required as the layer1 Cosmos OMG Zone is connected to layer 1 Ethereum via the layer 2 Plasma based OMG Network. Ether, Erc20 are brought into the OMG Network thru Ethereum. Cosmos Atoms and Tokens of other Cosmos Zones are brought into the OMG Network thru the Cosmos OMG Zone. They can be exchanged using the OMG Network DEX and then exited to their respective root chains. This mechanism can later on be used with Eth 2.0 for getting tokens from different shards into the OMG Network and doing cross shard token transfers. This makes the OMG Network highly interoperable.

. The bootstrapping stakers and liquidity problem mentioned above are solved because we utilize the OMG Network solution provided by OmiseGo.

. There is no competing with the OMG Network, rather it is a collaborative approach with chances of greater network effects

. Things to research and develop

  • Cosmos OMG Zone (can use Ethermint & plasma contracts / Tendermint chain built with Cosmos SDK modules & plasma contracts / Parachain with Polkadot / etc.)
  • Connecting Plasma OMG Network to multiple root chains (I think the main updation required will be modification of plasma UTXO to support multiple address/signature schemes)
  • Hardspoon and reward token mechanism
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#19

These are very thoughtful notes @tousthilagavathy, and I appreciate your clear outline of our options, particularly the potential of a “third-way” that is in collabaration with OMG (or at cooperative competition to all of our benefit).

I would like to endorse you for an award of 20 DAI and 10 OMG for these notes that I think are comprehensive to this RFI (so, 30 DAI and 10 OMG thus far …). @nebali and I are currently troubleshooting ledger voting confirmation issues with the Aragon team, but I will create a transfer vote asap after we resolve these technical hiccups.

In terms of next steps, I think it is well worth our time and dedication of further ONC resources to consider how we will approach 1 (Cosmos Zone)/ 2 (Multi Root Chains)/ 3 (HS and reward mech).

I hope we can get more input here, but in any event, I think I will research Cosmos OMG Zone - @tousthilagavathy Would you like to research “Connecting Plasma OMG Network to multiple root chains”?

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#20

Thanks @ro5s . I’ll research “Connecting Plasma OMG Network to multiple root chains”.

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